Deaf Pagan Crossroads

Posted in Archives #1 Deafness and Accessibility, Creating Accessibility, Deaf/Hearing Relations, Empowerment, Equal Communication Access, Sign Language | 39 Comments

39 Responses

1. on August 20, 2007 at 5:30 am | Reply jared

   I would recommend you to make a vlog for each of these announcements. Vlogs will generate more views and increase motivation for submissions.

   
   
2. on August 20, 2007 at 5:35 am | Reply WAD

   Terrific! You will receive my entry soon. Man, I am excited about this contest as I know I will have the time to write. Logically, “Equal Communication Access” is what we face EVERYDAY and ANYWHERE.

   
   
3. on August 20, 2007 at 5:56 am | Reply ocean1025

   I do agree with Jared that a vlog would be helpful. This was discussed at our ECA Campaign Committee meeting, and we do hope to create such a vlog this week – be looking for it soon!

   (I would create a vlog and put it up here at the Crossroads, but unfortunately I don’t have the proper equipment, so I have to pass this one on to one of our other Committee members…)

   
   
4. on August 20, 2007 at 7:33 am | Reply moi

   The changes seem very fair and are wonderful news! I’m mulling over a possible entry, but no promises! 🙂 Thank you for making the changes. I am so thrilled with this idea and I’m rooting for it all the way!!!

   
   
5. on August 20, 2007 at 9:46 am | Reply Mishkazena

   I am glad to see that the deadline for the contest has been extended.

   
   
6. on August 20, 2007 at 12:10 pm | Reply Ella Lentz

   huh? what changes other than extended deadline? I was truly hoping you would move ahead to the true meaning of “EQUAL COMMUNICATION” in the Deaf community and require ASL translation of any English blog entry. The writer doesn’t have to sign their own blog, but for truly EQUAL COMMUNICATION access and showing complete respect for Deaf American’s natural language, ASL, the writer should be required to provide an ASL translation. I am disappointed you didn’t push forward on that.

   
   
7. on August 20, 2007 at 2:04 pm | Reply ocean1025

   Ella ~

   I believe that both Deaf Pundit and Virginia L. Beach (Ocean) addressed this issue in the previous blog where you originally expressed such concerns.

   The ECA Campaign Committee met and discussed the concerns you raised, and while we appreciate you sharing your thoughts on the matter, it is the consensus of opinion that the rules are fair and appropriate as currently developed. Thus we feel no need to make changes in that area.

   I’m sorry that you are disappointed, but hope that you will continue to support the efforts of the Equal Communication Access Contest regardless of this matter.

   Thank you.

   
   
8. on August 20, 2007 at 2:25 pm | Reply CrystalDolphin

   Hi Ella,
   One other issue that was brought up was that there were some folks questioning how they can enter the contest if they don’t have their own blogsite – and that issue was addressed here as well.

   Most of the feedback from folks was simply that August was a very busy month for them and they did not have time to get involved and get their entries submitted before the original deadline.

   I suggest you go back and read the responses to your last comments on the ECA contest. I don’t want to keep repeating all the same stuff, but I know there were a couple of other points brought up on top of what I am addressing here.

   One problem I have with translating my blogs to ASL, is that I do not have, nor can I afford to purchase, the camera equipment to vlog. I also do not have an interpreter available to translate my writing into ASL. (As I am still learning ASL, trust me, you don’t want to sit through me trying to vlog in ASL right now!) 😉

   As was stated, you are welcome to vlog an entry in your preferred language of ASL if you wish, so long as you provide an English transcript.

   The reason for this is that one of the ECA contest goals is to help educate those who do not know about the issues of the Deaf Community, those who don’t know or understand what Equal Communication Access means and why it is important.

   The majority of those people are going to be hearing, English speaking people, who don’t know ASL (or PSE, or Cueing, etc.)

   You in the Deaf community, after all, already know what issues you face with lack of Equal Communication Access, right?

   The ECA committee is made up of a diverse group of Deaf and HOH individuals. All feedback about the contest was discussed, and it was agreed upon that the rules remain as they are.

   Unfortunately, we can not please *everyone* completely, but we feel we are doing our best to accommodate the majority.

   Thank you.

   
   
9. on August 20, 2007 at 2:42 pm | Reply J

   Crystal Dolphin brings up a good point…

   Ella, if you feel the rules are not focusing on the true meaning of Equal Communication Access, then why not enter the contest yourself and submit a vlog that truly expresses what Equal Communication Access means to YOU and what we should do to truly achieve Equal Communication Access for all.

   Seems to me that would be following in the footsteps of the quote that one can find on the Deaf Pagan Crossroads header: “be the change you want to see in the world.”

   
   
10. on August 20, 2007 at 8:22 pm | Reply Jenny

    Hmm. I’ve been thinking all day about Ella’s point.

    When she first brought it up, I agreed. Absolutely. There shouldn’t be double standards for a contest purporting to promote equal access.

    When Ella brought this up again today, I was very curious to see how people would respond. I’m sympathetic to the issue of lack of equipment or lack of ASL fluency. However, a principle is a principle, which is precisely the reason for this contest. We aren’t willing to accept when a corporation pleads poverty due to the high cost of interpreting or captioning. Why should we accept it here, especially when we are trying to include everyone? Furthermore, the statement that this decision benefits the majority is patently false. Why do you think vlogs get many more hits than blogs? And even if that were the case, we are a minority group trying to unify, and limiting access this way is exclusionary.

    The reasoning presented here for why the decision remains sounds remarkably like what we as deaf people often encounter when we try to get access in the larger society. I see a double standard at work, frankly. Ella’s right.

    
    
11. on August 21, 2007 at 8:34 am | Reply moi

    Ella has a point. Another thought I’d like to add is that no, we don’t necessarily all have the same thoughts or information when it comes to this topic. It’s very beneficial to be able to dialogue and to be able to use each other’s “talking points” when fighting our individual, daily battles. That’s hard to do when some are inaccessible because they aren’t translated into ASL. This does deprive many of us of this resource.

    I understand that it’s difficult because of equipment, money, and ASL skill issues, as well as the issue of wanting to encourage more entries. However, it’d be nice to have an acknowledgement that yes, this is an unequal requirement and maybe it could be a goal for future contests, even if it remains this time. I found the insistence on placating/accommodating the majority (hearing) at our cost very disquieting. The “we think it’s fair” comments bothered me too. Again, an up-front acknowledgement of the disparity would be very much appreciated.

    I still think this is a wonderful endeavor and I hope it succeeds.

    
    
12. on August 21, 2007 at 9:21 am | Reply floridagirl

    Ella won’t be willing to enter into translating words into ASL. Remember No Child Left Behind refers to Deaf-Blind children, too. ASL has better accessed to write a transcript for Deaf-Blind students or adults who will be pleased in the benefits of their developing knowledge. Most interpreters who have problems comprehending struggle to catch ASL style communication in Vlog without captioning or transcripts. Mainstream schools mostly hired some interpreters who are horrible at signing ;therefore, deaf children are frustrated and struggle to learn methods. They live without Equal Communication Access for the world.

    PS“The writer doesn’t have to sign their own blog,”

    You look at your image that TV had the image of the interpreter in a small box during the 80’s. Why did someone decide to delete the interpreter and replace them with captioning on the TV?

    
    
13. on August 21, 2007 at 9:49 am | Reply ocean1025

    I want to say “thank you” to all of the individuals who have left comments both at this blog and also at the earlier blog on “Clarification of the ECA Rules”…such feedback is important, and I do appreciate your taking the time to share your thoughts. I have certainly learned something from reading them, and I think others have also.

    I really do wish that I had the time to type up a good, clear, thoughtful response and post it here at the Crossroads so that we could examine the issues and how best to address them, because I do certainly want a contest that people feel is fair to all and really does focus on the concept of Equal Communication Access…for all.

    Unfortunately, the timing sucks. I have learned my lesson – August is a bad month! If I had to do this all over again, I would have waited until September to hold the contest….trying to coordinate nine people’s schedules so that we can get together in a chat room and really have in-depth discussions on some of these issues has been a challenge…what with vacations and so forth.

    Now it’s my turn – I’m running around at the moment like a crazy woman trying to finish things in preparation for a combination business/vacation trip for which I leave tomorrow (Wednesday), and will be gone until the first week of September. This is taking priority on my mind at the moment.

    Please know that I am not trying to ignore the issue or whatever. I do acknowledge these concerns and do recognize that perhaps we need to revisit the rules and the language disparity. I have spoken with one of the Judges, who will be contacting the others on the Committee to discuss this over the next week or so and see how we can address this issue.

    Once again, I wish to thank everyone for their comments, their feedback, and their support. I remain committed to the concept of Equal Communication Access, and to doing my part in helping to promote it for all. Hopefully this contest can be a small step towards that goal.

    Thank you.

    
    
14. on August 21, 2007 at 10:08 am | Reply floridagirl

    Amy Cohen Efron and Ella Lentz, You shouldn’t have to make an excuse for captioning or subtitles. How about hearing parents of deaf babies; they have the right to know what the Vlog said.

    PS I hope you will express your feelings honestly.

    
    
15. on August 21, 2007 at 10:36 am | Reply A Deaf Pundit

    Okay, as the person who started up ECA, I think I need to clarify the purpose of ECA. The purpose of ECA is to EDUCATE the hearing about us.

    Now, I understand some of you don’t want to educate the hearing and that you do not want to do anything with them at all. If you want to do that, okay. But don’t expect all of us to do that as well.

    We need each other. We both have a lot to teach and learn from each other. This campaign is targeted at the hearing, and they know English, not ASL.

    Once they see that we have reasonable issues that need to be addressed, then we can start gaining more hearing allies, which is needed. The blacks had white allies in the ’60s. The gays have straight allies now. This is just one strategy to use in our fight for equality. We should not be using only ONE strategy.

    With that said, the judges still will be meeting to discuss what you all have said here, because we do welcome feedback from you guys.

    
    
16. on August 21, 2007 at 11:07 am | Reply Ella Lentz

    Deaf Pundit,
    I educate thousands thousands thousands of hearing people with my ASL performances, in my ASL classrooms, in my Deaf Culture classes and yes with public television i.e. Rainbow’s End, etc etc etc.
    My point about the contest rules is that DEAF people should be able to submit their thoughts however they want about equal communication access and the ECA should be prepared to take the responsibility of providing access itself not the contestants. This is a win-win situation. This will show the world the wonderful gift Deaf people have of TEAMWORK, utilizing each other’s skills and gifts in presenting something important.
    As you told me, we all need to THINK OUT OF THE BOX. Unfortunately for me the contest rules does not show that. It just moved us one step backwards in that area back to same old story of “serving the public more than our own folks”. That is not thinking out of the box. It is the same ol story with the same ol excuses, with the same ol actions. We need to think deeper and figure a way to do that and at the same time lifting ASL to its proper place which is a language EQUAL to English and any other natural languages of the world.
    I wish I could enter the contest. I sure have plenty to share. I am struggling…should I refuse because of the unfair rules or go ahead and hopefully break the barrier with my story AT THE COST OF OUR SELF ESTEEM? That’s how I see it.

    
    
17. on August 21, 2007 at 11:26 am | Reply WAD

    Ella,

    You raised an excellent concern. You’re always such an enthusiastic and passionate person. The ECA, thanks to its originator Deaf Pundit, is in its infancy. I am sure the committee heard your concern. My impression based on committee’s comments, it will be given serious consideration in the near future.

    Currently, the target audience is doctors, parents, teachers, etc. to exposing them to many different viewpoints of the deaf community’s “What ECA means to me?” messages is critical at this point in time. Many of them are clueless. The goal is to have them grasp what ECA means from deaf individuals and deaf community’s standpoint and I am sure you agree.

    Tools (technologies) to provide equal access in communication from every angle are currently being developed everywhere. Do not forget educating the users on how to use these tools is still a work in progress. How long ago did the awareness of vlogs show up? Not a long time ago! Too many people are still just learning how to caption a video, create vlogs, post comments on blogs, and so forth. You are trying to figure out the RSS stuff. I haven’t tried posting a vlog as it requires a learning curve. Amy Cohen Efron and many others warned us it’s a lot of work. Another related example outside the blogsphere, NTID Center on Access Technology under the leadership of Dr. James J. DeCaro and Mr. E. Willam Clymer are working vigorously to ensure the access technologies are being implemented to all in many educational settings.

    I am confident many people will posses the skills to utilize various valuable and inexpensive technology tools within the next few years except for the old farts.

    Please be patient and things will come your way soon. I plan to compete in the contest and I hope you will consider the same. The more participants, the more interesting entries we will enjoy reading/viewing. For ECA infancy’s sake, please be a good sport.

    
    
18. on August 21, 2007 at 12:01 pm | Reply Mr. Sandman

    Interesting debate shaping up here. I think it really goes to the heart of the matter, and of course, that means there are no easy answers. Ella/Moi, etc. will argue “yes, there is an easy answer!”, but no there isn’t- read on and you’ll see what I mean.

    I can see both sides here. But one point I’d like to bring up (and it’s partly a matter of semantics, really): if the group was called Equal LANGUAGE Access, then there definitely needs to be inclusion of ASL. However, the group (so far!) is known as Equal COMMUNICATION Access. Communication spans much more than language, and could involve anything from gestures to systems to languages (written/spoken/signed).

    If the former, then the contest should be limited to languages– English, ASL, etc. If the latter, then the contest should be open to any form of communication (and this is where it gets sticky, and why it isn’t an “easy answer”): ASL, SEE, PSE, CASE, Cueing, Rochester Method, gesturing, written materials, mime, etc. (now that would be an interesting vlog– a monologue on ECA delivered through a mime performance!) Naturally, this latter “solution,” as pointed out earlier, leads to headaches.

    I’m not certain which side I “support,” or even if I should be “supporting” either “side.” I’m still mentally working through it (I think Ella has a very valid point, but again, I can see both sides here…). But if my opinion counts for anything, I’d say go with the inaugural contest as it is, see how it works, then if a second one is held (and I think that it might not be a bad idea to do so), work on the guidelines/expectations and goals.

    I do agree that some of us do not have vlogging capabilities/webcams, etc., and that would be limiting in its own way. Also, what if someone who is primarily a cuer or uses SEE wants to write an entry– would they/can they find someone willing to translate into ASL? It’s not always easy to find people with the equipment/ability/time to volunteer to do this, as I think certain posters here are well aware. Also, consider the fact that not everyone has a computer or access to one; that factor alone is a limitation. So right off the bat, there’s exclusion.

    One thing that is important here (and we shouldn’t lose sight of) is that entrants will be writing about and fighting for a desirable goal. If necessary, agree to disagree; I’d hate to see a proactive move be overshadowed by a larger, ongoing debate/battle. Part of being “united” means being willing to agree on a message and fight for it– exposing the cracks right at the beginning may not be the best strategic move.

    Like Moi, I’m pondering a possible entry. We’ll see what happens… 🙂

    
    
19. on August 21, 2007 at 12:35 pm | Reply Ella Lentz

    Hello all,
    I truly wish I could do this in ASL right now. You are right, we are technologically behind when it comes to videos on the internet! Why not we ALL demand and/or work for better video technology so it’s alot easier.
    A solution as I mentioned before, but not yet in depth cuz of the limitations of this writing English restriction for me (even though I majored in English and have done quite a lot of writing)… is that ECA take up the responsibility to provide whatever access needed to the general public ABOUT Deaf people that will be accessible to signing Deaf people. So in a nutshell, Deaf person submit a written blog (ECA get experienced video and ASL translator to translate or summarize like the Deaf woman did for Robert Johnson’s long long letter about Gallaudet’s issues..forgot the title of that entry)…. and vice versa, when an ASL vlog is submitted, ECA takes up the responsbility of providing English summary or translation. There are experts out there that can be brought in to do those work in very respectful and appropriate way.
    Again, it is your contest. It will go on evidently. And it’s a nice idea. And you have all the right to proceed with it. Just like I have the right to express my concern…or even to protest, grin. I much rather this kind of intellectual discussion for now.

    
    
20. on August 21, 2007 at 12:57 pm | Reply A Deaf Pundit

    Ella, I think your English is perfectly fine. 🙂 I agree, we do need to demand and work on improving the technology being more accessible for us. We all probably should join COAT and organizations like that then kick some rear, so people get moving!

    With ECA is it’s run by very few volunteers. We have ZERO money. We have a donor to keep the website up and running for a few months, but that’s it.

    I like your idea, and I would love for that to happen, and I’m pretty sure the judges would agree with that. That is reasonable and feasible.

    We would need more volunteers to make that happen, though. If people want to join the ECA team and help out with this, you are more than welcome.

    And when you consider how much bandwidth the vlogs will be taking up, we would need more money to keep the website up and running. Those are the factors to consider, in my mind.

    
    
21. on August 21, 2007 at 1:14 pm | Reply IamMine

    Make love, not war!!!

    🙂

    xo

    
    
22. on August 21, 2007 at 1:54 pm | Reply ChrisH

    IamMine

    Can I make love with you? we will make a peace.

    
    
23. on August 21, 2007 at 2:00 pm | Reply A Deaf Pundit

    To clarify my previous comment, I am not saying the judges do this. They are far too busy to do that. We would need volunteers who are not involved in the judging, or submitting entries, to assist with translations.

    Please let us know if any are interested, because that will be a factor in our decision.

    
    
24. on August 21, 2007 at 2:41 pm | Reply Ella Lentz

    everybody,
    I truly appreciate this dialogue. Its a blessing to see how things progress. It’s hopeful for the Community. Thank you. If my opinion still stands in your decision concerning this contest, I would suggest that you make the English subtitles or text for ASL vlogs an OPTION with a notification that the winner will be required to have English text for public viewing; likewise say that the English blogs having an ASL equivalent/translation/summary an OPTION and again with a notification that the winner will be required to have an ASL text for public viewing.
    Maybe add that ECA is committed to this “equality” and will provide assistance to make this happen for the winning entries????? You can meanwhile start contacting potential volunteers to be on standby for this should the need arise (and give proper credit). What think you?

    
    
25. on August 21, 2007 at 3:02 pm | Reply A Deaf Pundit

    Everyone’s thoughts on this are welcome. This is really for everyone, after all. Personally, most of us don’t have the network to pull in volunteers. That’s why I’m asking you guys on here to volunteer or ask someone to volunteer with the translations. 🙂 Those who are involved with ECA are few, and we can’t do it alone.

    Let’s help each other out on this. And of course, Ocean and I will make sure everyone gets proper credit when this is done.

    
    
26. on August 21, 2007 at 5:40 pm | Reply floridagirl

    “I would suggest that you make the English subtitles or text for ASL vlogs an OPTION with a notification that the winner will be required to have English text for public viewing; likewise say that the English blogs having an as equivalent/translation/summary an OPTION and again with a notification that the winner will be required to have an ASL text for public viewing.”

    It sounds to me that Blog requires ASL just as ASL Vlog with subtitle that means equality. In my perspective, you are a bit pushy about a blog including ASL. Your communication is disorderly. It sounds to me that you feel uneasy and confused. So, you need your confidence to see the future.

    
    
27. on August 21, 2007 at 6:13 pm | Reply Ella Lentz

    Florida girl,
    you are right. I will NEVER be confident with English..especially with how people INTERPRET my meaning written in my second language, English. My experience has shown me that it is dangerous to rely on written English only. Its true even for hearing native speakers of English.
    Now, likewise, may I ask you about your confidence in ASL and in using the technology to produce a vlog? Once you experience it, I am sure you will respect Deaf ASL vloggers 100 times more. If you do not wish to do so, your choice, but you are only hurting the community, not helping it heal from the Oralism Colonialism. Mind you, I am NOT referring to Deaf people who had oral education, “successful” or not, I am referring to the SYSTEM that is badly hurting us ALL, including you and hearing parents and hearing public. Thank you.

    
    
28. on August 21, 2007 at 6:18 pm | Reply floridagirl

    Ella, I think you are complaining and focusing on the Blog submitted with ASL. It is a concept about how the magazine newspaper and the book is submitted with ASL? There is always ASL alive the same as Hispanic talk, Spanish alive in America.

    Please, don’t destroy Equal Communication Access make arrangements carefully in the future, and it takes time to have more ideas of the details.

    
    
29. on August 21, 2007 at 6:28 pm | Reply Ella Lentz

    Floridagirl,
    just tell that to ECA committee to “make arrangements carefully in the future”, not me. It is their idea and they are asking Deaf people to share their experiences, duh? I am simply exercising my “right to free speech” here in a way that is intended to push the paradigm shift badly needed in the HEARING PUBLIC about us Deaf people, but FIRST we need to make sure we are all united in respect for BOTH languages, ASL and English, within or without the American Deaf World. Please realize that yes it’s a very complicated problem and please BELIEVE that together, we the Deaf people CAN fix it quickly if we think and talk things thoroughly.
    I understand that ECA is considering a much better set of rules that seems much more fair to me so I am truly appreciative of ECA’s understanding of the importance of a true dialogue. Floridagirl, I hope you understand too.

    
    
30. on August 21, 2007 at 6:37 pm | Reply floridagirl

    Ella

    Most hearing and deaf people love to watch your ASL style. Don’t look in the past in pain. Now we need to fight for deaf education, and we need to prevent failing those oral deaf children who are suffering. Hearing parents will take time to understand about raising a deaf child. I believe ASL will win as primary language.

    I am trilingual- Spanish, English, ASL. To be honest with you, my English is not perfect. I admit I miss Spanish Sign language when I haven’t used it for 20 years because I live in America.

    I agree with what you said.

    
    
31. on August 21, 2007 at 7:00 pm | Reply A Deaf Pundit

    There will be a decision coming very soon regarding this. Floridagirl, thank you for your words. Ella, I also thank you for your input.

    I do wish, however, this had been discussed in the beginning, so things wouldn’t have been so chaotic.

    I just want to say that I really think we all are on the same side here, and we need to have healthy, open and CALM discussions, so we can cover all of the angles possible. Next time you see something wrong, speak up – IMMEDIATELY, and explain EXACTLY what you think is wrong!

    The longer people wait to speak up, the worse the problem gets. I’ve learned that the hard way, myself.

    It is far easier to solve the problem that way, and everyone is more calm as well. None of us are perfect, and we will overlook something but all of us have good intentions in this whole thing. None of us want to see bad things come out of this.

    I promise you, I will personally listen and discuss things with you thoroughly as possible, as long you present your reasons. I want to see us come to a common ground, and work together for the best of all of us.

    Okay? So, I have learned something from this, and I hope everyone else has learned something as well, and all of us will try not to repeat the mistakes here again.

    Thank you, and please keep your eyes open for the next blog post updating our decision.

    
    
32. on August 21, 2007 at 7:01 pm | Reply abcohende

    Floridagirl,

    Amy Cohen Efron here…. adding subtitles on the vlog distracts viewer away from an actual message signed on the screen.

    I made every possible effort to add voice-over two of my most important vlogs on my blogsite, and also added transcripts too.

    Ella Mae made a good point that when you were able to learn how much time required to produce a vlog, you will definitely respect the vloggers and their work.

    It only takes 20 seconds for a blogger to type a decent sentence, by typing on the keyboard several times and press enter to publish on the blog.

    It takes 2 hours for a vlogger to sign a decent statement from the start by preparing the equipment, transferring raw video footage to the computer, start up the editing program, and do editing process. Then once editing is done, we need to render the video to a final product, and if necessary, compress the video. Uploading the video to video sharing service, and type up a blog entry introducing the vlog.

    Now, you are asking us to do the translation process from ASL to English? Then we get to the word processing program up and running, to type down English that is comparably same to what the person is signing. Adding subtitles, add an hour to do that to make sure that the words shows up in a decent video space without distorting or interfering signs. Voice over, find a volunteer to read aloud the transcript and watch the vlog, talk to the microphone, save the audio file. This file will be added to the video on the editing program, so add another 1 hour for that.

    So…. talking about equality?

    20 minutes to type a sentence or so.

    6 hours to create a simple vlog with simple statement with subtitles, voiceover, and transcripting?

    Why do we, the vloggers have to work harder and longer to satisfy the public?

    Please think about this, Floridagirl. Try to vlog for yourself please, subtitle it, make sure it has a voice-over, and provide transcript. Then you tell me what you think about it.

    Thanks,
    Amy Cohen Efron

    
    
33. on August 21, 2007 at 7:25 pm | Reply pdurr

    hi all

    i havent read all the postings in detail but from the call for submissions, u can see that English is being given preference
    1. the guidelines r in text English only
    2. the blog submissions only have the be in text English
    3. whereas the ASL vlogs are being required to have an English transcript

    why are not the text blogs being required to have an ASL transcript????????

    i can understand requiring a vlog that might have spoken English and thus not be accessible to Deaf people to add captions – that makes sense. that is what ACCESS is about

    but requiring a submission that is in another accessible language which is accessible to anyone who knows that language – why add a transcript – that is not reasonable accommodations, that is not equal access – that is favoring ENGLISH over ASL

    i post this not to protest any person who chooses to submit an ASL vlog with voice over / cc and or transcript but i think perhaps the Equal Communication Access committee might be interpreting the word ACCESS differently than i do and most legal definitions do
    ACCESS: The ability or right to approach, enter, exit, communicate with, or make use of

    this applies to Deaf people since they do not have the ability to fully access spoken English – access must be provided in certain situations

    it does not mean – if someone communicates in a language that another person might not be familar with that that individual must provide a transcript

    it is ironic – this bending over backward to accommodate non-signers to understand ASL when the inability to understand ASL is NOT borne out of a disability

    it is amazing how often a lecture, performance, event given in ASL will almost always be interpreted into spoken English when there really isnt a legal obligation to do so. whereas thousands of lectures, performances and events take place in the US every day without ASL interpretation –

    i think when we can finally start valuing understanding and recognizing ASL as a language instead of an access / communication tool we will see it is much like a foreign language

    i agree fully with the Equal Communication Access committee deciding it may wish to provide translation for the “winners” because they are targeting a mixed audience – that is fine and cool but to burden the ASL vloggers but not the English bloggers with providing BILINGUAL (not access) submissions is not equal nor fair

    peace

    pdurr

    
    
34. on August 21, 2007 at 7:25 pm | Reply ocean1025

    The Revised Rules are now up! Please do go check them out!

    I will be on a combination business/vacation trip til the first week of September, so if you have any concerns, please contact Deaf Pundit, or you can leave a comment at THAT post and she will do her best to respond.

    I will also gladly respond to any questions or concerns once I return from my trip.

    Thank you! 🙂

    
    
35. on August 21, 2007 at 7:56 pm | Reply pdurr

    what about just letting the blogs be in English and the vlogs be in ASL?

    for the international submissions – if in foreign language – provide text English or video ASL translations?

    this way each category is on equal footing

    i think the goals and aspirations of the ECA are noble and good – i think that the dialogue that has emerged here demonstrates the value of the organization and its aspirations

    Equal (just; equitable) Communication (exchange of thoughts, messages, or information) Access (ability or right to make use of)

    Ocean wrote about the ECA:
    “It’s a belief that we as deaf or hard-of-hearing people should have the same right to be able to comprehend and participate in what is happening in the world around us, on various levels – educational, employment, media, medical, legal, spiritual, social, entertainment, you name it.”

    so keep ur eyes on the prize folks – this means Deaf and hard of hearing folks right to have access to spoken English in its various forms and places which the majority easily partakes in daily

    In terms of making ASL accessible – this would only apply if we are talking about Deaf-blind individuals – the need to use tactile signing etc

    it does not apply to people who do not understand or know ASL (hearing, deaf, hard of hearing, late deafened, oral) – they can learn ASL – they can BECOME bilingual. their disability does not prevent them from being able to have access to the message / information

    translating everything for them does not enhance their fluency or speed up their language acquisition

    Deaf, hard of hearing, oral, late deafened, folks with CI etc all have the legal right to equal access because no matter how fluently they may read, write, lipread English – they is still Deaf and there will be many moments where they will not be able to have ACCESS to the full message – not because they havent learned the language but by virtue of their not being about to hear

    i am not opposed if ECA wants to add voice and/or cc to the final winners but they should also do the same for text English – provide ASL version

    but this would be as a courtesy or a strategy to reach the most people possible and should not be confused to be an ACCESS rights issue

    Deaf pundit, Ocean and any other ECAer – sorry to be signing on late with this response – been out of the loop on ECA – again i think ur goals r noble and worthy

    keep u eye on the prize – equal access

    peace

    p

    
    
36. on August 21, 2007 at 8:20 pm | Reply Katherine

    Ella and for everyone else’s own curiosity:

    That woman you referred to who did ASL translation for Robert Johnson’s English version is Edna Johnston. And no, they are not related! 🙂 She did a great job.

    
    
37. on August 22, 2007 at 11:46 am | Reply moi

    Thank you so much for taking what we’re saying into consideration! Mr. Sandman is wrong in thinking that I’d argue that there’s an easy solution. There isn’t. But I know together we, as a community, can work this out. I’m looking forward to reading the new rules, which I’m about to do!

    If it turns out that translation is needed, I can’t do it because itd make me non-anonymous. But I volunteer to write a transcript for Ella. *grin* Anything to help this endeavor out!

    
    
38. on August 22, 2007 at 11:53 am | Reply A Deaf Pundit

    We all are on the same side here, and I think that’s important to keep in mind. 🙂 So, I definitely look forward to seeing my email box full of entry submissions!

    
    
39. on August 22, 2007 at 2:45 pm | Reply Floridagirl

    Amy Cohen Efron

    I have seen your old statement the same news since it was spring time. I rarely entered your Vlog makes me to feel mixed up and confused in my mind. It was fast radical while it seems to be oppressive.

    If I make a Vlog, I will add a subtitle. Reason, I continue to persuade hearing parents of deaf babies and deaf children if possible to believe in ASL as natural language. ASL bottle needs to feed the deaf babies who are thirsty for a nourishing language for their body.

    Pdurr is clearly evidence information when it makes me pleased.

    Ella

    I almost forgot to add a message I will respect your wish for ASL value as precious. It needs to be spread about as evidence of ASL as primary language. In good news about the profession, the interpreters as well as some teachers actively advocate ASL. Don’t give up continue to fight. I trust you. 

    
    

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