While checking out some statistics about my blog that WordPress posts in my dashboard, I noticed a link to my site listed which caught my attention.
Go take a look for yourself:
http://deltaflt1189.wordpress.com/2009/06/14/demonic-occult-symbols-of-the-satanic-sucker/
According to the author of this webpage
“I Love You” sign is made using a combination of the letters I L and Y from American Sign Language. It is made exactly as the “horned god of witchcraft” by extending the thumb, index finger, and little finger while the middle and ring finger touch the palm.
In another words, any time somebody flashes the ILY sign, they are actually invoking the devil.
And if you are a true Christian, you should not be using this sign, or any other “satanic symbol.”
This individual shows a stamp of the ILY sign, and comments…
Deaf Handshape for “I Love You”… or is it I love you Satan?
Groan ~ just when I’m finally getting people to understand that being Pagan doesn’t mean I worship the devil…
Now apparently because I use sign language, I’m a Satanist.
Not only that, but both myself and my blog – Deaf Pagan Crossroads – are being misrepresented on this webpage. First of all, I never gave this person my consent to quote me, or to post a link to my blog. And while I haven’t exactly been misquoted, it’s clear that my words are being taken out of context and twisted around to meet this individuals own warped agenda.
I can say that Starhawk – whom I have met personally – is being misquoted. I have never known her to ever say “In the world of the occult, many symbols are imbued with power by the magician working in conjunction with the demonic spirit world,” nor have I ever seen it printed in any of her books. For that matter, neither did she say “They develop signs for Pagan vocabulary based upon ASL concepts…” - that’s taken directly from my post about Pagan Sign Language (this was originally published on this page; it has since been removed, as well as commentary from my objections added.)
Geez… if you’re going to bash both my language and my religion, at least get your facts straight.
I don’t know whether to laugh, to cry…
or to strangle the living daylights out of this idiot.
Soooo… what do YOU think ???
This sculpture shows the sign for "connect"...and that is what Deaf Pagan Crossroads is all about - making connections. Connections between Deafhood and Paganism, connections between the Deaf Community and the Hearing Community, connections between myself as the writer and you as the reader. I hope you will take the time to read my various posts, some of which are listed below. Welcome to the Crossroads, and I hope you make some connections here!
That is honestly the most pathetic thing I have ever witnessed. Seriously? I’m at awe.
She seems to be one of those people that makes other Christians look bad….
Hello Ocean,
The ILY sign is universal in the deaf world, but few in the hearing world really know or understand that sign. I’m serious, not many hearing people really know much about deafness or sign language.
Ever go to an Okla-Tex football game? You’ll see the Sooner fans waving their one-finger up sign and the Texas Longhorn fans waggling their horn signs— guess which one that is?
What a laugh!
Ann_C
wow i been signing iloveyou that way all my life. gessh if i am invoking Satan i should be rich by now. honestly why is it that some people feel the need to make everything into something satanical ?
i am sick at my stomach, i read a article to were they were trying to say Obama was the anti christ but this is just sick and twisted
Oh niiiiice….. A nice Jewish boy like me is a Devil worshipper too!
That woman is totally insane. From what I can interpret from her ramblings, she’s even trying to accuse the leaders of major Christian religions of also being Satanic as well. A true nutcase of the first degree in my opinion and should possibly be locked up before she does harm to herself.
Honestly, how pathetic can one person be? Absolute idiocy! I have been signing I Love You my entire life. It was the one sign my mom always signed to us no matter where we were. In a sea of parents waving at their kids, the mom waving ILY was always my mom. This woman should have met my aunt. According to her we were all going to burn in Hell, and according to my brother she was going to be leading the way.
This site reminds me of another that I saw some time ago that sickened me more than you could imagine. It was saying that all people who used sign language (of any kind I guess) was one of Satan’s minions. Come on! I remember reading this extreme site and wanting to vomit and strangle the idiots who put it together. Looking at the particular religion I could only roll my eyes.
I will never understand how idiots like that make it anywhere in life.
Oh, and not only did they not have Ocean’s permission for the link to her site or consent to quote, they never contacted the newsletter that I write for that published that interview. Pagan Moonbeams newsletter only granted permission for Ocean to re-publish the interview. Guess I’ll be contacting this wack-a-doo as well as our newsletter admin.
Wow !!! I never thought of that. I don’t know what to think of that sign in I l u. When I see no thumb stick out. Then it is evil sign. When sign in I l u seems alright for me. But thanks for info.
Witchpi
All I can say is that this woman really exhibits a colossal degree of ignorance especially when it comes to ASL. As for quoting you without permission, you should pursue it.
Smile, grab your belly, laugh until aggravation is gone…and believe in this ..what goes around will come around two-fold.
Hi Ocean,
Hope your resettlement to the Bay Area was good, smooth, and all’s well with you.
Your post here is fascinating. I agree with most of the above comments. The author of the website/post has gone off the cliff, just as any person espousing words/signs/pictures with fervent and singular belief/loyalty/_____ in any one (or more than one) system of any kind, be it religion, dogma, whatever. Many examples are wonderful deaf people in the deafvblogworld espousing their strong belief in something.
I just want to bring up something. Life on Earth, as we know much of its’ diversity, has an amazing array of objects, real and symbolized, everywhere that any one person can pick certain this and that together and claim that this is how that worked. Plucking contrasting images from the internet and put them together to support one’s belief, dogma, idea. Coupling nature-given sign language with satanism. Oh, gosh!
I just sway my head incredulously at all that. Warning, this craziness will expand with increasing applications of the internet into our daily earthly lives. It is the reader/user who needs to filter things out/in, along with important “rebuttals” or warnings like your post here.
Way to go, O, with peace
The level of people’s stupidity is always surprising, isn’t it? However, this one is nothing new to me as I went to a Christian school. We would get in trouble making this sign. Don’t you know that that is why they make this sign at rock concerts – because rock and roll is the devil’s music. It’s too bad that when some people choose to accept Christ, they trade him in for their intellect and common sense.
Wow, I’m almost speechless… so… all of our leaders are satanists? That would explain a lot… LOL. Really, this woman is one who seems to have latched onto an idea, and ran with it… straight to the side of crazy. She received a well deserved eye roll from me! And I’m going to tell her what I think!
I guess I really shouldn’t be surprised at just how far the depths of ignorance reach, but really I never thought to see so blatant ignorance as this. It just astounds me someone would think “I love you” is a satanic symbol. I guess it does take an “idiot light” to show just how pervasive ignorance is.
Hi, I just want to say that I read your blogs and have for a little while. I am pagan and studying ASL in the hopes that I can connect with my patients as well as other pagans.
At first, I thought that this article was sort of funny but, then…it started to scare me. This is obviously not your typical Christian but, this sort of thing that plants seeds. Anyway, I won’t read it again. But, if it is ok, I might do an article for my ASL II class on your post. Of course, I will cite this address as my source.
Blessings
Just goes to show you how nutty those “christian” types are. If you don’t believe the way they do, you’re going to “hell.” If they don’t understand you, you must be bad and are therefore going to “hell.”
If they don’t understand a topic, they make something up about it in order to paint it into one corner or another and if you’re not in the right corner on that particular topic, you’re going to “hell.”
They make me sick, these so called “christians.” I don’t know a one of them that is really true to the philosophy they proclaim Jesus preached. Rather, they’re political dogmatics, ingoramuses, schizophrenics, and authoritarian control freaks. People like this are no different from the ones who flew planes into the WTC and the Pentagon.
If these are the kind of people you find in “heaven,” I’d rather go to “hell.”
Christian-bashing is, to me, just as unacceptable as, say, gay-bashing, women-bashing, etc… you get the picture.
It sounds to me like (at least) one commenter has some prejudiced views against Christians, and that is quite unfortunate.
Granted, this woman is a few bricks shy of a house, but she shouldn’t be used as an excuse to spew hatred against Christians as a group. That is just as sickening as the contents on Ms. Stemmerman’s site.
Many of the other commenters are correct in that this woman isn’t a typical Christian and put the blame squarely on that one woman for spouting such nonsense.
Wow, by the time I sign a sentence or two in normal conversation, God only knows how many evil spells I’ve cast.
Look out if I’m having a normal conversation with some friends – all that signing – I’m sure the world will be destroyed !
I think we all for safety better sit on our hands
Gays and women, as groups, do not formally organize to force others to join their belief system. They have never killed indigenous populations and justified it by saying the people were not like them. Gays and women don’t say you’re going to hell if you don’t be like them.
Comparison of “christian-bashing” to gay-bashing and women-bashing is a false comparison. A better analogy of christian-bashing would be Nazi-bashing.
This ILY handshape issue is a perfect example of what is wrong with so-called christians. It’s crazy, is it not? Pointing out the irrational, dangerous, and narrow-minded actions of a cult is not bashing; it is a cry for help bringing reason to a group that does not hold reason in high regard.
I’ve done some research on Helen Keller, and I don’t believe she invented the “I Love You” sign as this woman claims. Also, I don’t think she was in the occult, she just viewed spiriuality a little different. It’s amazing that this woman actually took someone else’s “research” as truth, instead of looking up information on Helen Keller herself. As an Alabamian, and a long time admirer of Helen Keller, I should be offended. And if “research” such as this wasn’t so dangerous, I would laugh at how ridiculous it is. I realize people that have WAY too much time on their hands are really dangerous.
Oh, and not all Christians are like this woman, so you can’t lump them all together, Anon.
Christian bashing does no good for anyone. There is no need to lower yourself to their level. Nor is this the forum for it. The woman is seriously lost. I hope that she finds help. I have some wonderful Christian friends. They respect that I follow a different path as I show them the same respect. That’s as it should be. I know some people though that will preach the Bible and do the opposite while trying to brow beat you into converting and becoming “born again” believers.
Hey Sistah,
You posted this while I was away on my midwinter vacation, and therefore away from the computer. I saw your email message about this post when I got back to work, but something told me I should probably wait till the weekend to read it thoroughly. Yes, that was a good idea, considering work is pretty stressful these days leaving me somewhat annoyed and often quick-tempered at the end of the day.
Wow.
So, now, I’m a little confused, is this Ms. Stemmerman woman an actual Christian claiming that “Satan” is a god? Most Christians I know would not refer to Satan as a god – even those that are misinformed and miseducated about modern-day witchcraft and believe it is devil worship do not tend to refer to the devil as a god.
“This sign represents the Horned God of witchcraft (Satan) as well as the ancient god Azazel and pagan gods Pan or Cernunnos.”
I find it interesting that she actually notes the pagan horned gods that many of us do know well and/or work with – Pan and Cernunnos – yet she still attributes “Satan” as the “god of witchcraft”. (scratches head) While there are Satanic witches, they do not account for the majority of the witchcraft community – which she obviously either doesn’t know, or simply didn’t clarify so as to serve her own agenda here.
Demonizing my religion and my practice is one thing. She wasn’t the first, and unfortunately she wont be the last. Some just don’t want to believe that the Christian concept of Satan has no place in my life or my religion.
It doesn’t seem that it would matter to her, but it is fact that one symbol may mean different things to different people/cultures/groups. But to imply, and plant that seed of thought, to the general public that the ASL ILY sign is purely Satanic, and all who use it are expressing their love for Satan or doing so to “invoke Satan”? To that, I’m well, speechless.
As witches, we know that intentions play a major role in our rites and magical workings. I would have to say in defense to Ms. Stemmerman’s comments, the same goes for ASL and the ILY sign. Never has it been my intention using this sign to mean anything other than what I know it to mean – I Love You. Nor do I believe you or any of my other friends and loved ones have ever signed ILY to me with intent to mean “Hail Satan” Sheesh!
It’s absolutely preposterous that she suggests this widely known ASL sign of love and affection be changed, or that “true Christians” do not use it for its ASL intended meaning.
I often have to wonder if these nutcases that spew such nonsense have any idea how much harm they actually do to their own religion. It makes it much harder for folks not to judge the whole group when there’s these loudmouth lunatics that speak in the name of Christianity and make it look like a crazy cult.
As others have noted, we have to remember that this one woman has no more business speaking for all Christians than she does all witches.
Blessings,
Crystal
Absolute silliness.
I am not a member of your community but I do sign and I am pagan.
I learned ASL when I dated a deaf man for 4 years. My signing isn’t that great anymore (use it or lose it) but I still use at work.
I must be confused because to me the ILY sign and the “horned god” sign are different in that the thumb goes over the middle and ring fingers. Two totally different things.
For anyone to condemn ASL as Satanic is ridiculous. They don’t know what they are talking about. Ignore the whackos.
I’m really upset as are other of the misinformation they are “quoting” on that site claiming that the sign for I Love you is the sign of the devil. I started learning pieces of sign language when i was little from my mother who was taking a class. My grandfather was always hard of hearing in on year so we taught him the I Love you sign and would “flash” it to him as we were leaving from our visits. I was never hard of hearing until almost three years ago when my hearing was taken from me…at that time i hung out with a bunch of satanic worshipers and they had never used the I love You sign, they did how ever use the “rock on” sign that is common of the rock-n-roll era that they listened to greatly…
I’m taking a literature class in college right now and we’ve learned that symbols can have many meanings, but it is the reader’s back ground (in this case a witness’s background) or traditional meanings that give people the basis for forming a second meaning that probably never existed…I’m afraid that is the case here…some one saw another using the sign improperly and assumed that everyone like that one person is just alike. its sad really.
While I am flabbergasted that anyone could be as daft as this woman is, I am left pondering one question. She states that she is merely asking that those that claim to be Christians not use the ILY handsign because it is satanic and used by the occult. Then would it not also stand to reason that this same woman would also like other Christians to give up celebrating Easter and Christmas, because of the pagan roots that those holidays have? I am very confused…..
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder… if you mean I love you with it what harm is there? I’m Christian but I will continue to use it… because I love “people”. I wonder if they celebrate Christmas? Afterall it was modeled after pagan holidays… maybe the spirit behind it is enough to overcome it’s shortfalls… the spirit of Christmas… the spirit of love…hmmm, I see no evil here… sorry.
Just as a drop of dye can tint a glass of clear water…we need to be mindful of such people as this woman….she and others like her are dangerous…ideas of blame and hate have cost innocent lives before. Whole countries have turned on miniority religions, races…we (the US) have done it ourselves. Before you say we don’t do that…remember when we didn’t torture either?
OMG. That is so ridiculous. I’m a Christian and just started learning ASL. And guess what? Sign Language is just another language… Like any other language exept that you use your hands not your mouth. There is absolutely no connection between sign language and the Devil!!!
How can some people even think something like that? There are many deaf people that use ASL and are Christians!
Sorry to rain on your parade kids but that hand sign has ancient origins in the occult, regardless of the fact it is now adopted as a hand sign for the hearing impaired. It does not matter what you feel or think about this woman and her ideas, it is a fact. I love how everyone just jumps on that single minded band wagon that the author of this page is correct and the creator of the linked pages is labeled a hate/fear mongering fool.
Your all sheep.
Baaaaaaaaaa
I think we are sufficiently awake, thank you.
The hand shape for I Love You which is utilized by the Deaf Community is based on the American Manual Alphabet – it uses the hand shapes for the letters I, L, and Y to create a manual-visual way of expressing this term of affection. It’s no different from when people write a letter and use the abbreviation “ILY” to state this same sentiment. Since the Deaf Community utilizes American Sign Language – a nonspoken language – to communicate with each other, this hand shape is simply a “shorthand” way of doing so, without having to use both hands to sign each word individually.
This is a fact.
That everyone here is “jumping on the bandwagon” has little to do with being members of the genus ovis and more to do with being in agreement with one another as to the origin and intent of this specific hand shape and its usage.
It is also a fact that several of the pictures this woman attributes to being examples of occult usage are actually photos snapped in situations where Deaf people were present and the hand shape was being utilized to express a greeting to these individuals.
Yes, there are hand shapes which may have ancient origins in the occult. If you trace many of the symbols in use today, you will likely find older meanings which bear little semblance to their current definitions and usage.
But to apply a general, gross statement that anyone who utilizes this hand shape is in fact invoking the devil is to be instigating an idea that frankly… I have serious problems with.
And if commenting on such makes me Little Bo Peep, then so be it.
Good day to all. Despite this post being 2 and half years late, I felt that I had some things I wanted to add.
First, although I know it was mentioned that this forum is not for such, I felt the need to say I am a Christian myself and I use the term guardedly. Most individuals use the terms in a very self-righteous manner, thinking that now that they are “Christian”, they are better than those around and that is simply not true. Biblically, we are all sinners, even us Christians and making statements like that shows ignorance and makes it difficult for us who genuinely want to express the love we feel towards mankind hard because we are afraid of telling those around us that we are Christians. We don’t want to be grouped with those who take their religious views beyond measure.
Second, I have absolutely no qualms saying that as a Christian, I have several friends who follow Pagan and Wiccan views. I may not follow their ideals but I accept them and love them nevertheless. I have no fears of entering their homes or being respectful of not entering the sacred area of their altar. I have always been interested in ancient mythologies and have a deep desire to understand other religions. Just because they are not my own, does not give me or any other the right to look down upon those around us. Our responsibilites as Christians is to give that love of Jesus to those around us…remember Christians, he loved the very people who killed him. If that is not the greatest expression of love than what is?
Third, I sign and I happily use the ILY sign often. As with most all things in this world, it is not the symbol but the intention. Who cares that the image is similar to something else. If the person is trying to communicate an expression of affection, leave them to it. If they have an evil look on their face and look about to ready to consume copious amounts of blood, then you can worry…and I’m not saying Pagans drink blood or are evil so don’t think that is what I meant. I am simply making a point in regards to the Satanic part. To attack others based on so foolish a concept shows ignorance and serious mental instability. She should be ashamed to call herself a Christian and I am seriously vexed that individuals like this would attack a language, no matter the root.
Lastly, my sister is deaf-mute. She is Christian and she signs and signs ILY often. Does that make her a hypocrite? Does that make the family blasphemers for not having attempted an intervention? Does she actually intend to send us all to ‘Hell in a handbasket?” I think that if people would stop and try to use some common sense and logic, they would realize just how stupid they are to say or believe such garbage. Sure, everyone should have a right to speak their beliefs but not to the affect of disparaging others for their ideas, ideals, values or, most importantly here, their language.
Thank you for allowing me my rant and I hope that others who may read this will understand that there are those from both sides of the fence who are just as hurt for the ignorance and dehumanizing words. Again, thank you and blessings to all.
This Is the type of person that makes organized religion look bad. I’m hearing but I love sign and I take offense, it’s pathetic to blow down on a culture you clearly haven’t experienced. Sign is a LAGUAGE and for one to try and link it to Publicly to something else they probably no nothing about (devil worship) is both immature and I form of biggetry.. Typical Christian, no offense to those with true faith.
Actually, Caleb…there is nothing typical about this person and his/her statements regarding the ILY sign. I think if you would actually take the time to read some of the comments above, that the general consensus is that the message being conveyed by this individual is NOT endorsed by the majority of the Christian Community. For you to imply otherwise with your own statements is in itself a form of bigotry.