This post - based on an actual email exchange with a hearing friend - is Ocean’s attempt to share some of her innermost thoughts about Deafhood and what being a Deaf person means to her…
(YES, I KNOW IT’S LONG… I THOUGHT ABOUT TRYING TO SHORTEN IT DOWN, BUT I DECIDED TO LEAVE IT AS IT IS, BECAUSE IT MEANS A LOT TO ME. GUESS I HAD A LOT I WANTED TO SAY… SORRY!)
Hi Ocean ~
I’ve just finished reading some of your posts and the associated comments to each of them. They are very thought provoking and do give me a lot of insight into the thoughts and feelings of the deaf community.
*** Yes, I am sure they were quite thought-provoking… that’s part of why I write and post them. Hopefully they do provide a certain insight into the Deaf Community that one might not get otherwise.
They also show me that there is not only a lot of prejudice and bias from the hearing community towards the deaf, but also from the deaf community towards the hearing.
*** Oh yes, I can certainly agree with this statement. But I think it is important for anyone who is going to associate with the Deaf Community in any way (such as your friendship with me) to recognize this fact. While I might be more understanding and tolerant than some Deaf people are, I am still a part of this community and a number of those feelings do occur in me as well. In addition, even though I may not necessarily share some of those feelings on a personal level, I still can understand, appreciate, and identify with them on a community level. I may not necessarily agree with everything that the commenters say on my site, but at the same time I do understand where they are coming from, and I do respect their need to have a “safe place” where they can express some of that anger, pain, frustration, etc.
The other thing to keep in mind is… we don’t necessarily reserve such comments strictly for hearing people only - we also can and do say these sorts of things to each other. That’s part of the way our culture works - we Deaf are known for being blunt at times, to the point of being accused of being downright rude. I think one of the issues in the deaf community is that we are so diverse, with such a broad range of backgrounds and beliefs and perspectives and so forth, that in many ways it can be a challenge for us to get past that diversity to finding the common ground that can bring us together. The Deaf Community can be complex, and it can take a lifetime to really understand what we are all about.
This is very similar in many ways to ethnic or religious prejudice and bias seen in all countries around the world.
*** I would be cautious about making this kind of comparison. While there is some truth to it, there are also a lot of differences. Using this kind of analysis is like comparing apples and oranges. This is the thing that bothers me at times… how hearing people will often comment about discrimination, and how being discriminated against on the basis of deafness could be compared to discrimination on the basis of race or religion or ethnic background or lifestyle or whatever. I’m sorry, but it’s not the same thing and I’m not sure it’s always wise for one to try and make a comparison based on such. While one might find some common ground in such comparisons which can indeed make it easier for a hearing person to gain a understanding of what it might be like for a Deaf person, there are still some significant differences that have to be taken into consideration as well.
But you see, this is what hearing people tend to do time and time again, and what gets the Deaf Community frustrated… Hearies seem to have this need to try and show us what sensitive and understanding people they are, and often do so by trying to show some kind of common theme or some kind of comparison that will demonstrate that they do understand where we are coming from. The sad thing is… no matter what kind of comparison you attempt to make, even if there is a certain grain of truth to it, we are still going to shake our heads and sigh, because we know that no matter how hard we try, you’re never going to get it. You have to be Deaf to understand.
Ours is a communication discrimination, and it occurs everywhere. Everywhere we go we are consistently reminded of the fact that we are deaf…even within our own communities, even within our own churches, even within our own families. I have people who tell me that being Deaf is like being Black… while there is certainly some truth to this, I respond by asking “Have you ever felt somewhat rejected by your own family on the basis of your skin color? Has your own family ever implied that they would love you better if you were White…or at least could pass for being White?” This gives them pause for serious thought. And yet, there are Deaf people who feel this way in their own families.
Yes, certainly there are some similarities between the discrimination that a Pagan feels in regards to his/her spirituality, and that which I or other Deaf people feel in regards to our deafness. But there are a lot of differences also. As an example - you can hide the fact that you are Pagan from your boss and coworkers. I’m not saying that you do, or that they wouldn’t find out sooner or later… but you can hide it to the extent necessary. I can’t hide the fact that I am Deaf. Sure, I can speak and lipread well, but that doesn’t hide the fact that I cannot hear… and all the dynamics that go along with such.
It’s not something that will be easily overcome by either side until everyone is willing to work together without getting upset when someone makes a misstep while learning the culture and ways of the other. This is going to take time and much understanding and forgiveness on all sides in order to bring both the hearing and deaf communities together in understanding of each other.
*** Well, yes and no. I think some of this goes back to what I was saying above… a big part of making this happen is for Hearies to understand and recognize that they will never be able to fully understand what it is like to be Deaf, to experience all of what goes along with being Deaf. I have a good friend of mine who has Deaf family members and is a sign language interpreter, and I remember her once saying in response to a comment a hearing person once made about this very sense of understanding what the Deaf Community is trying to say…
“Don’t kid yourself into thinking that you do understand, and don’t try convincing the Deaf Community that you do. I can stand up next to Ocean and support her in every way possible… I can laugh with her, I can cry with her, I can advocate with her, I can educate with her… I can join her in her fight against ignorance and discrimination, I can share in her anger and pain and frustration. But I cannot speak for her. I cannot fully understand. I am not Deaf.”
One thing to remember is that being Deaf is a 24/7 job. It never ends. You never really get away from it. There is always somebody out there who has to be educated. Even when I am home by myself, I am still reminded of the fact that I am deaf, and of the issues that go along with that. When I try to watch a television program or internet video that is not captioned. When I get hung up on while trying to make a relay call. When I read about an event in the newspaper that I would really like to go to, but I can’t because they don’t/won’t provide sign language interpreters or other types of access.
And until the hearing world can fully recognize and appreciate this fact, I am not sure that understanding and forgiveness is going to come easily. It’s important to keep in mind that the Deaf Community wants recognition that we are in fact our own culture with our own language, our own values, our own social norms, etc. This is what is so difficult for a lot of hearing people to grasp. We are not just “hearing people with a hearing loss.”
But when we try to express our thoughts and feelings as members of that culture, we often get slapped for doing so. I’ve experienced this time and time again with different hearing groups I have been a part of - when I try to express the thoughts and feelings I have as a Deaf person, particularly to something that is said or done by well-meaning but woefully ignorant hearing people. Oftentimes the reaction I would receive from many of these folks - who know very little if anything about the Deaf Community and apparently aren’t all that eager to learn - is that ~I~ was wrong, that ~I~ was being rude, that ~I~ was misunderstanding things, that ~I~ was blowing everything out of proportion and being overly sensitive and making a big deal out of nothing.
The attitude that tends to come across with such comments and behaviors as I have witnessed in some of these hearing individuals is that we are being viewed as acting like little more than recalcitrant children throwing temper tantrums, who need to be petted on the head and pacified and told that there’s no reason for thinking and acting in this manner. This kind of behavior is paternalistic, it’s condescending, it’s audistic, and it’s just plain damn offensive. But we in the Deaf Community deal with it regularly.
One can see some examples of this kind of behavior in comments made on various sites all across the Internet…comments that reflect an attitude of “stop bitching about things and just get over it.” This is what pisses me off the most… is when someone who has little understanding or exposure to the Deaf Community tries to come along and tell me that what I am thinking or feeling or saying or doing is wrong… simply because it offends their limited perspective of the issues. Hello??? Sorry you’re offended, darling…but that’s the least of my problems.
Don’t get me wrong here, I sincerely believe that the deaf community has many legitimate reasons for feeling the way they do on many subjects where a complete disregard for their feelings about things is very evident.
*** Yup. Don’t get me wrong… I’m not saying that I totally agree with some of those feelings, or with the way they are expressed. But I do understand the basis for those feelings, and I can agree with them. I can appreciate why these Deaf individuals do feel the way they do, how those feelings prompt them to say the things they do (even if some of those things do make me wince), and I will support their right to express them.
It always amuses me how shocked members of the hearing world get when they experience the true vehemence of the Deaf Community, and get that full exposure to how we can really think and feel about certain things. It’s like they can’t believe that we are capable of being that angry! I honestly think that in the minds of a lot of people, we are “handicapped” and thus we are in some way inferior and incapable of thinking and expressing for ourselves. I think without consciously being aware of it, we are viewed as being just a step up from being mentally retarded and thus need to be treated much like children, or at least in this sweetly paternalistic manner. For example, how sign language is “such a beautiful language” or how the Relay Service is such an “awesome, marvelous invention.”
And then when we roll our eyes and say
“fuck this shit, stop being so damn condescending…it’s not a beautiful language and it’s not some marvelous invention - it is simply our language and it is simply a service that provides us with equal communication access”…
these hearies practically shit a brick. They can’t believe that we would even dare to respond to their comments in such a way…
“but I was only trying to be nice!!!”
But at the same time, as a hearing person some of the comments I read left me feeling like I would be considered an inferior person for being hearing as well.
*** Naturally such comments would leave you feeling that way…but maybe that’s not such a bad thing. In some cases, this was actually the intention. “Let’s turn the tables on these hearies and give them a dose of what we frequently feel on a regular basis!”
Is it fair? Maybe not… but at least it gets ya thinking.
I’m sure this was not the intent of those who wrote the comments, and luckily I’m not one who’s easily offended or take everything I read that someone has written in a heated debate completely to heart and as a personal attack on me. I’m one who can generally see both sides of the problem and can understand how each side would think and feel the way they do about a subject, but not everyone can do this.
*** It is tricky. Like you, I am a person who tries to see both sides of the problem and sometimes I will step in, play the diplomat, and attempt to cool off the heat and diffuse the tension a bit. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. But I don’t like to put a ban to the debates or more controversial comments, because I think they are an important aspect of getting people to see things “through Deaf eyes.”
One of the biggest problems that I have is I am out there in the hearing world. One reason for that is because I can speak and lipread as well as I do. But in the process of putting myself out there, I open myself up to getting a lot of misunderstanding and criticism from folks who know very little about the Deaf Community and our thoughts and feelings and perspectives, etc. etc. etc. So oftentimes when I say something to these hearing folks that they have trouble understanding or view as being rude and offensive to them, it is seen as an “Ocean” thing, rather than being understood as a Deaf thing. To most of these people, I am the only Deaf person they know, and they can’t connect what I am saying to the Deaf Community. So it becomes all about Ocean having “this episode” instead of being recognized and respected as simply a Deaf person expressing what would be a common thought and belief in the Deaf Community. It gets personalized to me, because these people don’t realize that Ocean ***IS*** a Deaf person, and what she is saying reflects that fact. It’s not always just about Ocean, ya know.
I often feel like sending all these hearies to some of these Deaf vlogs blogs and let them spend a day just reading what Deaf people have to say…maybe it will change some of their thinking.
All of that being said, overall, I’m thoroughly enjoying reading the blogs on your sites. They are extremely informative and very well written and thought out. I’m definitely looking forward to having more of these discussions in the future.
*** Thanks for the kind words. I have enjoyed our discussions, and hope that they do continue. Feel free to visit the Crossroads at any time, and to share what you read here with others. If my posts here help to create a level of understanding that didn’t exist before, then my writing will have been worth the effort.
Blessings,
~ Ocean
This sculpture shows the sign for "connect"...and that is what Deaf Pagan Crossroads is all about - making connections. Connections between Deafhood and Paganism, connections between the Deaf Community and the Hearing Community, connections between myself as the writer and you as the reader. I hope you will take the time to read my various posts, some of which are listed below. Welcome to the Crossroads, and I hope you make some connections here!
It’s always difficult to understand another culture, and there are always misunderstandings. I like your post, and it does give cause for more thought, but it also gives me the impression that I should not try to understand - that Deaf culture and deafness is beyond any attempt to understand, and efforts to do so lead to being considered condescending and paternalistic.
None of that would stop me, but what would stop me is if I had not found those people who were willing to help me understand, if only a little at a time, and recognize the imperfections that we all have.
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for your comment, Bill.
Allow me to clarify some of my thoughts here…
It is my own humble opinion that hearing people would do themselves and the Deaf Community a big favor if they would stop trying to prove that they can and do understand, and instead acknowledge that they will never be able to truly understand what it means to be deaf.
This doesn’t mean that you can’t appreciate, you can’t empathize, you can’t be knowledgeable about and sensitive to the different issues that deaf and hard of hearing people deal with.
But this is different from being able to say that you understand deafness, or you understand what being deaf is all about.
For example, you can understand why Equal Communication Access is important to deaf and hard of hearing people. You can support Equal Communication Access and advocate for greater accessibility.
But can a hearing person fully understand how ECA impacts on our lives, and how it feels when we are denied that access? I’m not so sure.
Yes, you might be able to understand some of the issues that we deal with… but there will always be a certain division there that can’t be crossed.
And instead of ignoring it and trying to deny its existence, perhaps we would all be better off if we acknowledged that it is there, and it does impact on how we relate to one another.
That’s the point I was trying to get across.
I think the “not being able to fully understand” applies to any attempt to empathise with others. I am not you, you are not me - so we can’t know what it’s like to be each other. We can only listen to each others’ experiences and try to imagine what it’s like to be the other.
Sometimes, when two cultures are radically different, the pain caused by the one to the other can be inadvertent and the two can exist in total mutual incomprehension (I’m thinking some Christians, some Pagans, here, but Deaf and hearing is another example).
I can see why it would be annoying that people go on about ASL and BSL being “pretty” but people talk about other languages like that, too - saying German is “guttural” for instance.
The thing I find annoying is the people who organise events (or make videos or webpages) that are completely inaccessible, and they don’t even think about making them accessible, and then are surprised when you are upset.
Reading your blog has certainly increased my understanding, even though I was already keen on accessibility. I would like to learn sign language but it’s expensive to learn (and I’m doing an MA at the moment). I think sign language should be taught to all school pupils.
Also, it must be very frustrating explaining the issues over and over - at least now you can direct people to previous blog-posts about issues, though.
Ocean ~
Thank you for posting our discussion together. Being a hearing person, I do know that there is so much I do need to learn about the deaf community. And I intend to learn ASL as well. I may never become perfectly proficiant at it, but I know that it is something I need to learn. Especially since I am seriously considering going back into nursing again after having taken just over a year away from it due to emotional and physical burnout, 5 years in hospice work will tend to do that to a person.
I also realize that being a hearing person means that although I can learn to understand a lot of what a deaf person feels and goes through on a daily basis throughout their life, I will never be able to 100% understand it. That could only happen if I myself were to someday become deaf, either through an illness or accident that left me without my hearing.
And yes, your posts and our discussions are definitely helping create a level of understanding about the deaf and the deaf community that Fyre and I were never privilaged to know before. And for that we both thank you very much, not only for giving us the chance to learn and understand but also for being our friend. We value and respect you for exactly who you are and we wouldn’t want you to be any different than that person we’ve come know and love.
“but people talk about other languages like that, too - saying German is gutteral, for instance.”
Ahem, Yvonne -
While I am sure that there is some truth to what you are saying here, I would like to point out a few things that might help drive home a bit of what Ocean is trying to say here…
With this statement, you are doing exactly what Ocean was saying - making a comparison to something else that you do know, as a way of trying to show that you can understand how frustrating it must be to have to endure all that talk about sign language.
But the subtle message that comes across is the one that I think a lot of people don’t really understand and appreciate is what they are saying…
“well, it’s not just deaf people and it’s not just sign language; it happens in other situations as well, and we have to just grin and bear it, so you might as well do the same.”
Yup, we have to grin and bear it also. But at the same time, I sit here and wonder if these folks really do understand all the issues involved with our annoyance…
It seems there is rarely a time when I am using ASL in public that I don’t encounter some kind of “weird experience” related to it…
- the waiter who has perhaps learned 19 out of the 26 letters of the manual alphabet and then proceeds to show me what a wonderful, sensitive human being he is while demonstrating his painfully inept fingerspelling skills in an attempt to “communicate” with me. And the whole time I have to sit there with a fake smile on my face, watching my french fries grow cold, while I pretend to be encouragingly supportive of this guy’s obvious inability to sign his way out of a paper bag. What’s the alternative? Tell this waiter to put his hands down, shut up, and leave me alone to eat my lunch in peace?
- the 68 year old wife who when seeing me signing, decides to tell me how her husband is “nearly deaf” and won’t wear his hearing aid and how she has to practically shout to get him to understand anything, and who then asks where she can take a sign language class because then “maybe he will finally listen to what I have to say!” And you sit there and wonder if these two sweet but clueless senior citizens really understand what’s involved in learning a new language (not to mention that the hubby is clearly demonstrating the early symptoms of dementia.)
- the teenagers who giggle and ask how to sign certain obscene words… you get the idea. And who then ask if it’s possible for me to teach them how to sign the latest hit from the latest American Idol winner, because they think “it would be kewl to be able to show my friends!”
And on it goes…
Do people who sit in restaurants or bars or similar such places and speak French, Italian, Russian or Polish really experience this sort of stuff???
Then you go on to tell us how you would “like to learn sign language but it’s expensive to learn…”
Well, geez…thanks. Nice to know you put a budget limit on effective communication.
We get this one all the time too…how it all costs money. In other words, we are little more than a financial burden that people would rather do without, and our needs cost money that could better be spent elsewhere. Like the time I was invited to my cousin’s wedding - they spent over $1000 on flowers, but couldn’t be bothered to spend a measly $60 to have an interpreter so I could understand “the beautiful vows that they personally wrote for the ceremony.”
Folks are always telling me how they would like to learn ASL (and I happen to be a certified ASL instructor for a community college), but they always seem to have an excuse for why they haven’t gotten around to doing it - costs too much money, the classes meet at inconvenient times, they are too busy with their jobs, etc. etc.
That’s fine… we all have priorities in our lives. But why tell me that you want to learn my language if you’re not going to put any commitment into actually going out and doing so?
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, but…
Awesome post! As you say while can I empathize, I don’t and probably will not completely understand what day to day trials you and other Deaf people have to endure. Keep up the good work and trying to educate those of us wish to learn. Thanks for your hard work!
JD got it right.
Thanks Ocean for sharing this email conversation.
Thanks for posting this, Ocean. You voiced many of my sentiments, as a Deaf person.
It’s been said before, but I think it’s a very apt description of us Deaf… We’re foreigners in our own families, work, and country.
Ocean might not like me using examples here, since our issues are so unique, but I’ll use an example of how trying to understand can come off as condescending. You don’t see white people going around, ‘Oh, I understand what it’s like driving while black.’ You just don’t see that.. because you don’t understand. Only blacks understand that.
So it’s a very similar thing for us, when people go, ‘Oh I understand how it’s like being deaf.’ No, you don’t. We are the invisible minority. You don’t understand.
How can you claim to understand when we face daily experiences like when we go up to a clerk in a store, and you can see that they want to help you. They approach you with a smile and their body language is friendly. Then suddenly, they realize you’re deaf. A shadow crosses their face, and the body language stiffens, and business is hurriedly wrapped up with a mumbled thank you with a downcast glance.
What’s the message the hearing person’s sending you? The message is, “I don’t want to deal with you. You’re too much of an inconvenience. Go away!”
How can a hearing person truly understand that? You can empathize, you can be outraged.. You can logically understand.. but you won’t truly, emotionally understand it. Only other Deaf people can truly understand that, because they’ve been through the same thing, EVERY SINGLE DAY. Every single day, some deaf person out there is experiencing that kind of treatment.
So yes, many of us are angry. And the most sad thing to me is that so many of us don’t even have the language skills to express our anger appropriately.
Until that is acknowledged, things sadly enough, will probably continue to improve at a very marginal rate for us Deaf.
Hello, JD. Er, sorry, I seem to have added to the general noise rather than eased communication there! Mind you, it’s difficult to say anything under the circumstances (and I thought we were trying to get away from PC niceness and actually engage in dialogue).
OK, I promise to get off my backside and learn BSL (I live in the UK) as soon as I have finished my MA. But I’ll probably end up being one of those annoying finger-spellers… Last time I looked at it, I didn’t have the money spare - now I do, so there’s no excuse.
I hear your annoyance and I want to be an ally without seeming in any way condescending or trying to pretend that I know how you feel (please read the first part of my comment again).
PS actually I speak German as a second language and have frequently had comments about how guttural it is. Not every day, but then I don’t speak it every day. So yeah, it wasn’t that great a comparison, really, you’re right.
I did start my comments with “Yes, you’re right, we don’t know how you feel” and saying that no-one can know how another person feels, and we should all bear that in mind when communicating with others in general - then maybe it would become a habit not to assume we know how the other person feels, so when we meet a Deaf person, we’d be in the habit of not assuming that and then it would improve communication. Just a thought
If I might step in here and play the diplomat like I often do…
I think both Yvonne and JD have some good things to say, and have made some valid important points that all of us should take into consideration.
I do have to agree with Oscar… JD got it right. But I don’t think the comments made were intended to offend or upset Yvonne or any other hearing person, but rather to continue the flow of intelligent discourse here.
Engaging in dialogue often means being willing to say things that can be painfully blunt, but oftentimes necessary as part of the whole learning experience.
I think as long as we keep our comments decent and respectful, that we can still share our thoughts… openly and honestly.
Yes, I can appreciate that especially for my hearing readers, it may seem difficult to say anything here, because you do want to be “sensitive” to the issues being addressed.
But at the same time, I agree with Yvonne that there comes a point where you’ve got to get away from that PC niceness if you really intend to engage in any meaningful discussion.
I hope this post and the comments here open up opportunities for both sides - deaf and hearing - to share their thoughts and feeling and experiences and perspectives in that “safe place” where such will be honored.
Keep those comments coming!
Also important to remember… ASL is not Deaf second language, it is native language. People think me just using handtalk for English…not true. ASL is not English. It is different language!
I use ASL every day. People say things to me about ASL and want learn sign. I just nod head. I know they not really understand. Some take class but drop out, tell me ASL too hard to learn.
Ocean,
Thanks you so much for being willing to tell it like it is. Over the years, I have seen my daughter experience the things you have mentioned. I have seen her put on the same fake smile at waiters or other people that try to fingerspell to her or say they want to learn to sign. I have seen her frustration at family gatherings. I have experienced hearing people address me rather than my daughter when she is standing right in front of them. Even though I have lived close to her and her experiences, I HAVE NOT come close to knowing what it really is like on a daily basis. Thank you for the reminder. As tiring as it is, please continue to advocate and educate. I will do the same in my role as a hearing mom.
Osh,
I know how important this post was to you. Yes, it was long (wink), but you had a lot of important things to share.
I wish you would start vlogging so your stuff reaches more eyes!
~ LaRonda
I will take what was said and learn from it.
“But can a hearing person fully understand how ECA impacts on our lives,… there will always be a certain division there that can’t be crossed.”
But in that sense, none of us can fully understand anyone else….you can’t understand what it’s like to be me. But if I share with you some of my hurts, my fears, my experiences, as I let those experiences be made known, you will begin to understand me. The best one can hope for?
Those allegories that people make with discrimination of other sorts, are attempts to relate, and make sense of what you are going through.
I wonder, if you are saying that people are too quick to respond with their own experiences, rather than take the time to listen? Much like those “friends” who after you have started sharing your pain, begin to talk about their own pain, without really taking time to listen?
I’ll keep watching, reading and learning. I have to get back to studying ASL I - test this week!